Обсуждение:Universalis 1

2009-05-09T17:59:32Z

Neonwhite: /* EvilCat */

Idle talk here %) [[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 10:31, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Neon:
Ok thanks Cat for pointing this out. Thinking about new scene now... Why do you use '%' in the way you do?
([[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 10:33, 19 April 2009 (UTC))

:It's actually an emoticon, a cheerful smile. the '%' symbol indicates funny eyes and nose. [[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 10:51, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

== Keeping records ==

If there is something that bothers you in the way I keep records, please, feel free to correct or point it out here. [[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 13:09, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

NeonWhite: Liking it. Keep up the good work! [[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 19:25, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

== Scenes ==

The thing to remember is that a "scene" in the game isn't necessarily equal to a scene in a movie. That's something I had to grapple with myself.

Where a movie scene is a distinct narrative unit defined by the needs of the story, a Universalis scene is a distinct game unit, defined by the needs of the coin pool. The player who framed the scene may choose to end it for narrative reasons as well, at which point he will probably pay the 1 coin for a "fade-to-black" and cap off the scene. But my motive this time was purely mercenary, and if I'd won the bid I would have simply paid to pick up exactly where we'd left off.

The thing is, we had no pre-existing elements I felt would have been good to introduce to that scene -- either for their own sake, or to spark a complication -- and I would have run myself out of coins inventing a new element and doing anything interesting with it. And all the take-overs and complications I wanted to use the introduced elements for would have taken me more than 5 coins.

And, yeah, the coin supply will get less tight when we start using more complications, but introducing complications with entirely new elements pretty much just offsets the cost of introducing those new elements, while giving charity coins to the target player. Until we get a good library of pre-existing facts we can drag into complications, I expect refreshment is going to provide our primary source of income.

Anyway... based on that theory... I'm looking at this as a re-building scene for me. I still need more coins, so I'm going to pass.

EvilCat's turn.

=== EvilCat ===

You're probably right. I think that cinematic scenes can be accomplished with some tenets, but it's unnecessary. By the way, Universalis uses so much cinematic/theatrical terms it would be easy to translate it to Russian - unlike most other RPGs. *sigh* Too bad it's just an indie.

[[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 15:28, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

=== NeonWhite ===

Giacomo, can you clarify what your pass means? Was that in relation to ending scene 3 or after my framing of scene 4 or after Cat's turn in scene 4?

Also, probably easiest if we sign and time stamp our posts here, so that we know who is talking...

[[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 17:55, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

=== EvilCat ===

By the way (again), I don't mind early Complications and, actually, like them. It feels gamey and is an elegant way to replenish coins. I won't force complications on anyone, though. Even to me their mechanics seems a bit... well, complicated. %)

[[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 19:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

=== NeonWhite ===

Ok, I have ended Scene 4. Not sure how to do the editing on the sidebar properly, so I'll leave it to Cat to clean-up.

[[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 08:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

=== EvilCat ===

Actually, I thought that you'll reply in a usual free manner, and then I'll compose everything in sidebars and such. Anyway, you did everything right, I just added a transparent line to separate blocks.

[[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 09:33, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

== Pictures ==

Sometimes I draw pictures for the games I play, and this time I have this urge too. But considering vague nature of Universalis, I have doubts... For example, the dog creature. By drawing it I will coinlessly determine its appearance in a way I like. Or Will - we didn't determine his age, and so a picture will influence you judgment. What say you? [[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 15:28, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

== Revised edition changes ==

I listed the [[revised edition changes]]. [[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 16:28, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Real complication ==

==== GiacomoArt ====

I guess I'm going to have to call Universalis a failed experiment for me.

While I'm trying to set up realistically nuanced emotion to create a horror story heavy on suspense, EC's trying to rush headlong into a tale of revulsion, NW's creating a personal power fantasy, and the deus ex machini are flying fast and furious. With all the chasing off in such different directions, I just have too much responsibility in my life to keep myself emotionally invested in this. Sorry.

Resolve the current situation however you want. If I kept playing, my very next move would be to take control of Santiago and hit him with an asteroid.

[[User:GiacomoArt|GiacomoArt]] 15:30, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

==== EvilCat ====

Sounds bad... I thought this disease thing very thoroughly, with methodical, layered revelation of its true nature, of twisted plot behind it. I thought out the next scene (wanted to bid all coins on it). Compared my plans to original novels, considered established tenets. We began at March 15, almost two month have passed - quite a time to start working on suspense. I enjoyed your input. Still, if it's hard for you and isn't what you want, may I reveal you (privately) these plans? I'm very excited with them and with the game.

[[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 15:58, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Neonwhite===

Actually, I'm not that attached to the outcome and happy for the dice and the challenges to fall where they will. I thought it was allowed to introduce new components into a complication by spending a coin to do so and one can then draw on the traits as appropriate. I didn't think it that far fetched for additional sailors to be wandering the island. The threat falls on Santiago's side because the interruption may prevent the throwing of the dagger, of course in the ultimate outcome as narrated, the sailors presence is likely to hinder Santiago as much as Nicole (and perhaps they team up to overcome it)...

The disconnect here is possibly that G has a firm view of Nicole's personality, however to the extent it is not paid for specifically in coins, that personality it is at risk of being pushed around (by the likes of me). I for example was surprised that she reacted with such ferocity to Santiago's irritating manner - but so be it. That is kind of what Universalis is about. The process is a lot more stilted due to the online play, so we probably just have to cut each other more slack and be less attached to outcomes or game elements in general.

I'm still up for carrying on. Not particularly concerned about details. I would still like to explore the rules through this game and i expect we will all get better at it as we go along. Hence less far fetched challenges, story elements, rules interpretations) - or at least, equally far-fetched.

Why don't we try to resolve the complication as best we can and carry on?

[[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 17:25, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

=== NeonWhite ===
Oh and for the record I think the disease complication is a very nice spin on things. Quite a lovecraftian turn of events. Next step might be to specify effects of the disease...

Sorry I can't agree with you G. I do think there is a lot more fun gaming to be had here, however, and I'm sure we can get along in a hard-on-facts, soft-on-people fashion.

[[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 17:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

=== EvilCat ===

GiacomoArt, if you would reconsider, I'd recommend you throw some refining tenets, like "no more than 6 positive traits per character, for in Lovecraftean horror, humans are weak". I thought of that, looking at this looong traits lists, but I'd rather take a challenge to slowly wipe/rewrite characters' personalities with disease. I didn't thought that the story is becoming unpleasant to you... [[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 18:23, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

=== EvilCat ===

[http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Dinosaurs_(TV_series)#Repeated_lines_and_catch_phrases Guess we're gonna need another Timmy...] Thoughts/suggestions? [[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 12:56, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Neonwhite ===
Mmm, I think so. I am meeting a guy here in London on Monday night (potentially) who has expressed interest in trying something new. So that is one potential.

Another possibility is for you to join the game I have started with my old roleplaying group from back home. I am originally Australian and I still play-by-post occasionally with the guys back in Australia.

I have jsut introduced them to Universalis and I have just started a new game with two of them. You could become a fourth. I'm not sure what appetite they would have to coming here to help complete this game. I expect they may want to finish a first single game of Universalis before considering another.

Let me know if you're interested and I will arrange for access for you to the forum. The game is still in the defining tenets stage.

[[Special:Contributions/85.118.26.166|85.118.26.166]] 14:43, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

=== EvilCat ===

You bet I am! [[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 14:50, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

=== NeonWhite===

Ok, you will need an ezboard account.

Go here:

http://p218.ezboard.com/barpa and post a message asking for access. YOu can say that Adam referred you and you are interested in the Universalis game.

My login name there is theghul. There aren't that many forums so you will see the universalis one. Post there when you are given access.

[[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 17:59, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Universalis 1

2009-05-07T17:29:36Z

Neonwhite: /* Neonwhite */

This is '''Universalis''' playtest which started [http://katemare.livejournal.com/10579.html here]. To reply, use '''edit''' button and add your reply under the text. Sign it with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> (this will turn automatically into your signature).

'''Story so far''': [[Universalis 1/Log|link]]

'''Players''' (listed in turn order): {{User|EvilCat}}, {{User|Neonwhite}}, {{User|GiacomoArt}}, davina

== Components ==

*[[Characters]]
*[[Locations]]
*[[Props]]

== Tenets ==

* Naval adventure.
* Lovecraft-esque horror. ([http://katemare.livejournal.com/10579.html?thread=19027#t19027 Details], [http://katemare.livejournal.com/10579.html?thread=29523#t29523 2])
* Pseudo-historic setting of Elizabethan time. ([http://katemare.livejournal.com/10579.html?thread=23123#t23123 Details])
* Moral choice between sin and virtue.
* No supernatural facts or components can be introduced into the game until there are 3 or 4 characters marked with "'''sympathetic character'''" trait. ([http://katemare.livejournal.com/10579.html?thread=31571#t31571 Details])

* No interrupts in mid-narration.
* Try to challenge only such details and/or in such way that preceding text wouldn't have to be overwritten.
* If a player doesn't act on his turn for a day, the next player can take the turn for free, or any other player can take it for {{C|1}}.
* Refresh rate for each scene based on the number of players who get refreshed: {{C|12}} for 2, {{C|8}} for 3, {{C|6}} for 4, {{C|5}} for 5 or more.
* When newly created Components are introduced to the Scene, [[Events]] describing their discovery are free.

== [[Scene 1|Scene #1: Sea Battle]] ==

Framed by GiacomoArt, continued to Scene #2.

== [[Scene 2|Scene #2: During the Storm]] ==
Framed by {{User|EvilCat}}

Components palette:

{{Components-12
| {{Component|the Caribbean Sea}}
| {{Component|[[Storm]]|traits = sinister, supernatural, violent, heavy rain (x2), howling winds, <s>monstrous waves</s>}}
| {{Component|[[Spanish galleon]]|traits = cannons, huge}}
| {{Component|[[Pirate sloop]]|traits = cannons, agile}}
| {{Component|master=1|[[armed sailor]]|traits=melee weapon, wheellock pistol}}
| {{Component|[[Nicole Tissot, pirate queen]]}}
| {{Component|[[Galleon's crew]]|traits=''armed sailors'', crew}}
| {{Component|[[Sloop's crew]]|traits = ''armed sailors'', crew, experienced, great teamwork}}
| {{Component|[[Sharks]]|traits=a slew}}
| {{Component|[[Will Bowyer, seadog]]}}
| {{Component|[[Ship's boys]] #1 and #2}}
}}

== [[Scene 3|Scene #3: Separated]] ==

Framed by {{User|GiacomoArt}}.

Continued to Scene #5.

== [[Scene 4|Scene #4: Isle of Teeth]] ==

Framed by {{User|NeonWhite}}.

{{Components-12
| {{Component|[[Isle of Teeth]]|traits=sinister reputation, reefs and rocks surrounding}}
| {{Component|[[Will Bowyer, seadog]]|traits=''armed sailor'', experienced navigator, disrespects Alano, intolerant of weakness}}
| {{Component|Men|traits=disrespect Alano}}
| {{Component|[[Alano]], biologist|traits=wounded, lucky, disrespected by sailors, fascinated by dog things}}
| {{Component|[[Dog things]]|master=1|traits=ugly, nasty bite, fact: unknown species}}
| {{Component|Small rowboat}}
}}

== [[Scene 5|Scene #5: Morbid Discovery]] ==

Framed by {{User|GiacomoArt}}.

{{Components-12
| {{Component|Rocky promontory|G|}}
| {{Component|[[Nicole Tissot, pirate queen]]|G|traits=''sympathetic character'', French, red hair, veteran of many battles, blademaster, deadly accurate, fights dirty, sleight of hand skill, strong spirit, cruel, beautiful, seductive wiles, strong stomach, ''off-hand dagger'', clothes are soaked, promise to aid Santiago, doesn't give a fig about unfair promise, wants Santiago's blood x2, sore, tired, thirsty}}
| {{Component|[[Santiago]], former prisoner|N|traits=''sympathetic character'', skilled with sword, practiced in stealth, calculating mind, deceptively strong, lightning fast reflexes, highly perceptive, adventurous, teasing nature, recently betrayed, nightmare and sense of foreboding, has saber, has wineskin, ...with fresh water, attracted to Nicole x2, alert to risk of Nicole's betrayal, hungry}}
| {{Component|[[Coconut palms]]|traits=a patch|exited=1}}
| {{Component|[[Coconut thief crab]]|traits=large, holds a coconut|exited=1}}
| {{Component|Barrel|exited=1}}
| {{Component|[[Dog corpse]]|traits=''[[dog thing]]'', stench, contagious|master=1}}
| {{Component|Crabs|exited=1}}
| {{Component|[[Tropical beach]]|traits=lines the land, clear blue sky, littered with flotsam, littered with [[dog corpse|rotting dog things]]|exited=1}}
| {{Component|Off-hand dagger|G|traits=''Nicole's'', balanced for throwing, masterwork weapon, razor sharp}}
| {{Component|? [[armed sailors]] #1 and #2|N}}
| {{Component|Disease|E|traits=transmitted by air, very contagious for those experiencing high emotions, maddening smell}}
}}

Coin count: {{User|EvilCat}} - {{C|0}}, {{User|NeonWhite}} - {{C|7}}, {{User|GiacomoArt}} - {{C|9}}, davina (currently inactive) - {{C|25}} .

Dagger complication dice pools: GiacomoArt (Nicole's side) - {{D|10}}, NeonWhite (Santiago's side) - {{D|6}} (probably 10), EvilCat (Santiago's side) - {{D|1}}

Infection complication dice pools: EvilCat (disease's side) - {{D|8}}, (probably 10), NeonWhite (characters' side) - ?, GiacomoArt (characters' side) - ?

== Replies ==

Reply under this header, please.

=== GiacomoArt ===
{{Sidebar|Return to the end of scene #3 ({{C|1}})

Nicole
*beautiful ({{C|1}})
Santiago
*adventurous ({{C|1}})
*attracted to Nicole ({{C|1}})

Event: Nicole spies (and starts toward) higher ground ({{C|1}})

{{C|5}} from my current {{C|20}} leaves me with {{C|15}}.

{{C|5}} from my bid {{C|15}} leaves me committed to spending {{C|10}} more.}}

Nicole moved on up the beach, satisfied that she didn't want to tangle with a beast the size of that crab in her present condition, and that the coconut trees would still be there if she couldn't find an easier source of fresh water soon. Best, for the moment, to follow the coast -- get out from this inlet, maybe find a promontory to climb, and look for any signs of a stream or even a settlement.

Behind her, as Santiago continued to follow quietly along, he couldn't help but feel that his luck in the light of this new day had continued to hold. If he was going to be shipwrecked, better to be shipwrecked with someone. And if he was going to be shipwrecked with someone, well... despite her bedraggled condition, there was no mistaking, this was a fine figure of a woman. Dangerous, too, to be sure -- not some damosel who'd been held captive on the sloop; her attire and movements, even the determined set to her jaw, clearly marked her as a full member of the crew -- but he hadn't set out for the New World because he liked to play things safe. No matter how things played out from here, she would certainly provide an interesting twist to this latest adventure.

Rounding the mouth of the inlet, Nicole did indeed spy high ground up ahead. Catching a second wind at the sight of it, she moved on with a renewed sense of purpose.

==== NeonWhite ====

Don't you need to pay to exit the crab from the scene?
[[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 22:03, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
: Not if he wants to leave the focus of the scene wide, he doesn't, I think. [[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 23:41, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

=== EvilCat ===
{{Sidebar|* corpse (3 coins)
** ''[[dog thing]]'', stench
* crabs (1 coin)
Event (1 coin): The smell wafted to Nicole. 
-5 coins, {{C|3}} left.

Complication: a morbid scene to instill dread, 5 dice.
Traits drawn: corpse, stench, ugly, crabs, tired.}}
The way to the cliff's top was a gentle slope, easy enough for aching legs. It was a sure walk. Then, the wind has turned, and Nicole noticed a strange smell. After a few steps, it became more evident, and grew overwhelming another few steps later: a rotting stench with a hint of sweat. It obviously came from a pile at the surf. Casting her tired eyes to the shoreline, Nicole noticed a busy movement...

The pile turned out a decomposing corpse of some hairy creature. Two black crabs, smaller than the last one, was nipping its crimson flesh. The only eye, the color of gold, was staring back at Nicole, and uneven teeth grinned in a crazy smile.
{{-}}

=== GiacomoArt ===
{{Sidebar|Nicole
* Strong stomach (1)
Change Location to…
* rocky promontory (1)
Exit: Coconut palms, Coconut thief crab, Barrel, Corpse, Crabs 
Total cost: {{C|7}}. {{C|21}} remaining, {{C|2}} still to committed to the scene.}}
I don't have the book at hand to refer to, but thought I should do my best to keep things moving. Hope I didn't overlook anything with the resolution...

'''"Tough luck, pooch," Nicole muttered, unmoved by the gruesome sight, but happy to put more distance between herself and the stench as she headed on toward the high ground.'''

--[[User:GiacomoArt|GiacomoArt]] 20:31, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
{{-}}
=== EvilCat ===
{{Sidebar|* 1 coin to make "[[dog corpse]]" a master component.
** Contagious (1 coin)
New traits:
* Tropical beach (2 coins) - littered with rotting dog things, lines the land (replaces "along the inlet"?).
{{C|4}} spent, 4 left. Neon's turn.}}
From the high point, Nicole could see a long beach lining the land she was washed to. The bleached color of sand was spoiled here and there with dark spots: flotsam, coconuts, seaweed, the late pooch... And one more at the other side of the cliff... And what might have been several corpses piled together, considering the number of crabs feasting there... Something took lives of these beasts, easily a plague.

[[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 20:59, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
{{-}}
=== NeonWhite ===
{{Sidebar|(No successes hmmm, some implications for Nicole then!)

Traits: (3)
*Nicole - promise to aid Santiago (1)
*Santiago - teasing nature (1), deceptively strong (1),

Events: (5)
*Nicole hears the stone dislodged by Santiago (1)
*Loose ground gives way at her feet when she spins and Nicole falls over the cliff (1)
*Nicole holds onto the rocky slopes (1)
*Santiago initiates dialogue (1)
*Santiago rescues Nicole from the cliff (1)

{{C|8}} used. Still at {{C|13}} altogether.}}

''Nicole continued to trek uphill, eventually reaching a rocky promontory where she paused for a moment to look out at the sea. Santiago likewise followed her in the climb. When the stone slipped its clattering down the hill clearly carried across the short distance separating Nicole and him.''

''Nicole spun in surprise and laid eyes directly on a startled Santiago. In doing so, however, the same ground that had betrayed Santiago, betrayed her. The loose ground at her feet gave way and, with a scream, she slipped backwards and over the edge of the cliff.''

''Though fearing the worst, Santiago's approach and glance over the edge showed that she had managed to grab hold of the rocky slopes and was holding on grimly. A smile played over Santiago's lips as he considered the possibilities. "Of course I will help you up, as I would any maiden in such desperate need of a man's help, but first you will swear only to aid me until we are off this cursed island."''

''Nicole's eyes burned hot with fury at his patronising tone but seeing no other choice, she nodded once in agreement to his demand.''

''Bracing himself, Santiago leaned forwards and, taking hold of Nicole's arm, swung her onto the clifftop with a single fluid motion.''

''"And I.... am Santiago" he said, with just a hint of mockery in the tone of his voice and the formality of his slight bow.''

[[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 16:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
{{-}}
=== GiacomoArt ===

Not going to bother putting it in prose: just assign a couple of traits to Nicole:

* Doesn't give a fig about any promise given under duress.
* Wants Santiago's blood (x2)

That's all {{C|3}} for the complication. Back to {{C|19}}.

[[User:GiacomoArt|GiacomoArt]] 01:36, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

=== NeonWhite ===
{{Sidebar|* 1 coin to take control of Santiago.

New traits for Santiago (5 coins):
* Additional attraction to Nicole (now x2)
* Hungry
* Skilled with a sword
* Practiced in stealth
* Calculating mind

For an additional coin, I will also nominate him to be a 'sympathetic character' if there are no objections.

{{C|7}} spent, 13 left. G's turn.}}
Santiago continued to follow the woman, admiring her fine form even more now that he knew it was not subject to a womanly aversion to death.

His rumbling stomach gave him pause for a moment as he recalled the large crab recently left behind. A sharp thrust of the saber would be child's play and it would be fresh seafood for lunch. Perhaps she would dine with him....

Pushing fantasy out of his mind he focused his attention on the woman and chose his steps carefully to avoid detection. He would reveal himself to this woman when it suited him. And when it favoured him.

[[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 22:50, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
{{-}}

=== EvilCat ===
Well, I pass this time. With this coin count, I'm only effective in a complication, and I don't want to start one more in this scene. [[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 09:51, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

=== NeonWhite ===
{{Sidebar|Traits for Santiago:
*Alert to risk of betrayal from Nicole (1 coin)
*Lightning fast reflexes (1 coin)

Components:
*Wineskin contains fresh water (1 coin)}}
''Santiago sees the fury still burning in Nicole's eyes and grips his sabre more tightly. '''"If she does come for me, I will leave her beautiful corpse for the crabs,"''' he thinks to himself. '''"Her passing will be so swift and so sweet. For now, I will keep her where I can see her.''' ''

''Watching her carefully, he sips carefully from his wineskin, sighing in appreciation as the water cools his parched throat.
''
'''"Want a drink?"'''

[[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 10:38, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

=== GiacomoArt ===
{{Sidebar|Sorry for the delay. Very full three-day weekend.

Nicole
* clothes are soaked
Event: Nicole converses with Santiago

{{C|2}}. Down to {{C|17}}.}}

''Nicole snorted at the taunting offer, the dry rasp in her voice betraying her thirst even as spoke. "Like I need more water," she said, rolling her eyes, as she reached down to wring the water from the hem of her still sodden shirt. Noticing the interest in his eyes as the maneuver bared a bit of her stomach, she deepened her scowl and turned her back on him, taking a few steps away. "What I really want right now is some dry clothes. So what's a girl supposed to do to 'help' you, anyway?" she asked suspisciously as she continued wringing out her shirt. It crept higher up the small of her back as she gathered more of the material. "Can you at least let me go somewhere I can lay this out to dry without your eyes all over me? It's indecent what you can see through it this way."''

[[User:GiacomoArt|GiacomoArt]] 03:55, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

=== EvilCat ===
Neon's turn. You have a dialog, and I would pass anyway. [[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 09:28, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

=== NeonWhite ===

Santiago looked up to the sunny sky, ''"I wouldn't have thought you were the shy type... You ought to dry soon enough".''

''"I figure we need to find some way to get off this island. Find some inhabitants, a town perhaps? If not then perhaps a passing ship if we get lucky. Either way I am a stranger to these seas, so perhaps you have a better idea how to proceed than I..."''

I suggest we cut the scene shortly, unless there is something more to be accomplished here. I initiated dialogue two turns ago, so it shouldn't cost me a coin this time, nor G a coin last turn.

[[Special:Contributions/85.118.26.166|85.118.26.166]] 10:29, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Thrown Dagger Complication ===

==== GiacomoArt ====

''Nicole muttered under her breath, remaining where she was, but pulling her shirt way up now as she continued wringing water from it, doing her best to stir the man's imagination with hopes of a show. "Just because I'm not overly modest," she scowled, half turning to him in a way that kept her chest hidden as much by her arm as her half-raised shirt, but managed to offer an excellent view of her athletic stomach, "doesn't mean I want ''you'' to see it. And besides, it's not really about me," she added as the hand she was intentionally keeping shielded from him behind her half-turned body silently unsheathed her dagger. "I was just trying to give you one more way out."''
----
'''Rules Gimmick:''' {{C|1}} turns a "possessed item" trait into an actual component, still possessed by its owner. (That's the way I always figured it should work, but I don't recall it being formalized anywhere.)

'''Nicole'''
*blademaster {{C|1}}
*deadly accurate {{C|1}}
*fights dirty{{C|1}}
*seductive wiles {{C|1}}
*sleight of hand skill{{C|1}}

'''Nicole's off-hand dagger''' {{C|1}}
*balanced for throwing {{C|1}}
*masterwork weapon {{C|1}}
*razor sharp {{C|1}}

'''Total:''' {{C|9}}. With the one back from extending the conversation, that brings me down to {{C|9}}.

'''Complication:''' Nicole is throwing her dagger from several paces away, trying to bury it in Santiago's flesh.

'''Toward Nicole's Dice Pool:'''

1) Named character (1D)

2) Surprise Maneuver (4D)
*seductive wiles (toward surprise maneuver)
*beautiful (toward surprise maneuver)
*fights dirty (toward surprise maneuver)
*sleight of hand skill (toward surprise maneuver)
3) The Dagger (3D) I'm not counting it's role as a weapon, since that's what allows her to attack from a distance at all)
*balanced for throwing (from the weapon)
*masterwork weapon (from the weapon)
*razor sharp (from the weapon)
4) Weapon Skill (2D)
* blademaster
* deadly accurate
5) Ferocity of the Attack (2D)
* wants Santiago's blood (x2)
6) Physical Condition (-2D) As I'm sure it'll be brought up to counter the dice-pool penalty Santiago's going to get… :oD
*sore
* tired
Total: 10 dice

'''Against Santiago's Dice Pool:'''

1) Vulnerable to Nicole's Seductive Wiles (-2D)
*attracted to Nicole (x2)

Also, unless the rules state I have to (again, I don't have them with to check), I'm not relinquishing my turn with this complication. There's more important stuff to come, it just can't be resolved until this has been.

[[User:GiacomoArt|GiacomoArt]] 16:18, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

==== EvilCat ====
Here's my rules evaluation:
* In revised RAW, you can separate a possession trait and cross the ownership with a coin (pg.66). Separating it without breaking ownership should cost one coin less, but you've actually separated them via throw (this, or an event, should signify Nicole's action). I'd say one more coin is required from you.
* "After the complication starts, turns proceed normally, except for..." (pg. 93 of revised rules, didn't change across editions). So, your turn actually ends.
* But - you ''can'' draw upon dagger's role, there is a very similar example in the book, pg.113 %)

I have nothing more to add, Neon's turn.
[[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 19:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

==== GiacomoArt ====
I'm willing to go with that possessions interpretation. Dropping the rules gimmick and paying another coin for the separation, then, still leaves me at {{C|9}}, and adding the dagger role to Nicole's dice count brings it up to 11.
[[User:GiacomoArt|GiacomoArt]] 22:59, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

==== NeonWhite ====

Alert to the danger and on-edge from vivid memories of recent betrayal, Santiago will try to see the threat, beat her to the draw and foil her throw with a slash of his sabre. I figure she is clearly in sword range, neither of them having moved since he pulled her up from the cliff, and also presumably being close enough for him to offer her a drink.

As such, I see the following for Santiago:

* named character (+1)

Detecting Nicole's attempted deception:
*alert to risk of betrayal (+1)
*recently betrayed (+1)
*calculating mind (+1)
*attracted to Nicole (-2)
*highly perceptive (+1) (new)

Pre-empting her attack:
*lightning fast reflexes (+1)
*skilled with a sword (+1)
*sabre (+1)

Total: 6 dice for Santiago

In the above, I have purchased 'highly perceptive' for a coin for Santiago (10 - 1 = 9 coins left).

I will also spend 2 coins to introduce two armed sailors (9-2 = 7 coins left).

''Two armed sailors suddenly emerge from the foliage nearby. Armed with pistol and sword, they brandish them at the pair and order them to surrender.''

armed sailors (intimidation effect):
*melee weaponx2
*pistolx2

Total: 4 dice for the sailors.

10 dice in total for my side of the complication.

7 coins left for me.

Also, I challenge the two dice for 'wants Santiago's blood' as not being relevant to a dagger throw (if anything it should help Santiago read her intent more clearly and might offer her penalty dice). I say we leave it at zero for that trait. This would bring Nicole's pool back to 9 dice.

Finally, this might be splitting hairs, however razor-sharp for Nicole's dagger would only come into play if it actually hit. What do you think?

[[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 11:25, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

==== EvilCat ====

Now I ''have'' something to add on my turn, but I have a bus in a half-hour. I will reply in less than 24 hours, please, don't resolve the complication without me. [[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 14:25, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

==== GiacomoArt ====

Things I'd like to hear EvilCat's opinion on:

*I read "calculating mind" as careful planning, not being perceptive. Don't really think it applies.

*Likewise, I have my doubts about "recently betrayed". That's not the same as saying he's alert for further betrayal in general, or that he's suspiscious of Nicole in specific.

---

Things I'm very opinionated about:

'''#1:''' Re: the dagger's sharpness, Universalis doesn't separate complications into "to hit" and damage phases -- and if resolving a complication automatically completes your turn, trying to separate "to hit" and "damage" phases without the game's blessing becomes pretty much impossible.

'''#2:''' Nicole is ticked. She is royally ticked, right on the verge of a blind, berserk fury. She is a strong willed, bloodthirsty pirate queen, who rose to a position of power and infamy in a world where all the cards are stacked against any woman doing so. She has had to face down and outfight countless men to get where she is, and she's not about to play the good little submissive now just because the ground gave out from under her at the wrong moment. I cannot imagine anything that would anger her more than for some patronizing stranger to pop up out of nowhere and suddenly demand that she now be his servant. I had imagined Nicole and Santiago getting along famously, but ever since a simple stealth roll got turned into this cruel twist, I've been trying to work up ways to justify NOT having Nicole just bury her dagger in Santiago's throat and be done with it.

Anger = adrenalin = strength = easier flesh piercing. The complication explicitly states, "Nicole is … trying to bury [her dagger] in Santiago's flesh." The "wants blood" dice apply.

'''#3:''' The complication was specifically worded as "Nicole is throwing her dagger from several paces away…", and I narrated her stepping back as part of the set-up (just as I carefully narrated foreshadowing to her seductive wiles use). Personally, I don't believes it's a necessary to first establish the distance as a separate fact to set up the complication I envisioned, but if EC begs to differ with me, I will now spend the coin needed to do that. Regardless, the saber and the saber skill do not apply.

'''#4:''' As a complete "deus ex machina", the sailors should be introduced as their own complication later, if at all. There's no time for them to show up and intercede in the split second it takes to launch the dagger. Absolute tops, you could get 2 dice out of their firearms, and if NW does manage to push through making them part of the complication, I promise that Nicole's own crew will pop up right behind them with guns already blazing.

[[User:GiacomoArt|GiacomoArt]] 18:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

'''P.S.''' 
Santiago already got awarded 1D against the surprise attack for Nicole's anger tipping him off, when NW used my narration of it as justification for making him alert for "betrayal" from her. To count the anger against her further for that would just be double-dipping.

==== EvilCat ====

Opinions:
# In [[Revised edition changes|revised rules]] (pg.100), it's explicitly stated that in case of a two-way trait, the player who first taps it narrates its usefulness or hindrance. So, by the rules, "wants Santiago's blood" is drawn upon by GiacomoArt and he's in his right to interpret it as beneficial. Still, everything can be challenged. Personally, I'd like see more reasoning for that, making it more than just a case of two-way trait which the rules solve.
# If the distance is important, it should be paid with a coin, end of the story %) "Record test", or how is it called in the rules?
# It's true that complications are no "to hit" and "damage" rolls. I'd say that the matter of this complication is "''a dagger thrown and the conflict that follows''", or we end up describing its outcome as either dramatical hit or dramatical miss, nothing more. Thus, I think that sharpness and the saber apply as long as NeonWhite won't narrate (if he wins) that Santiago suddenly decided to talk instead of averting the blow with the saber. Outcome should just consider the traits drawn.
#*Also, we can use a [http://www.indie-rpgs.com/ramshead/complications.htm#Extended%20Complications "Extended complication" rules gimmick] to divide the complication into stages (does the dagger hit? what do they do then? what do they do when men appear?).
#* I don't see why sailors are on the Santiago's side if they're threatening them ''both'' and ''ordering'' to surrender. Now, if they run like mad to interfere with the fight... And I have a reason for that, see below.
# I think that "calculating mind" is relevant to noticing and predicting threats. It's almost my life's philosophy! Incidentally, being recently betrayed pumps paranoid suspicions as well, actually helping in case of ''real'' danger.

I'm glad you described emotions of both sides really well, because...

''Subtly dominating the surroundings, there was a sweetish smell. Like a high-pitched sound that no one notices even though it gives headaches, the hint of corpses' rotting stench was heating up the minds and the situation.''

New component ({{C|4}}):
* '''Disease'''
** Transmitted by air
** Especially contagious for those experiencing high emotions
** Maddening smell

And it starts a parallel complication of infecting the characters.

{{D|8}}, traits drawn: disease (role), transmitted by air, contagious during high emotions (a combat is going on), Nicole's desire for Santiago's blood x2, Santiago's sense of foreboding and attraction to Nicole x2; if sailors will be accepted as an intimidating factor, 2 more dice for them.

I also draw upon "maddening smell" in the dagger complication - in favor of Santiago's side, because Nicole was obviously more exposed to the smell. Since the disease is under my control, {{D|1}} goes to my Target-side dice pool.

Now {{C|zero coins}}.

[[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 12:28, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

==== GiacomoArt ====

I guess I'm going to have to call Universalis a failed experiment for me.

While I'm trying to set up realistically nuanced emotion to create a horror story heavy on suspense, EC's trying to rush headlong into a tale of revulsion, NW's creating a personal power fantasy, and the deus ex machini are flying fast and furious. With all the chasing off in such different directions, I just have too much responsibility in my life to keep myself emotionally invested in this. Sorry.

Resolve the current situation however you want. If I kept playing, my very next move would be to take control of Santiago and hit him with an asteroid.

[[User:GiacomoArt|GiacomoArt]] 15:30, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

==== EvilCat ====

Sounds bad... I thought this disease thing very thoroughly, with methodical, layered revelation of its true nature, of twisted plot behind it. I thought out the next scene (wanted to bid all coins on it). Compared my plans to original novels, considered established tenets. We began at March 15, almost two month have passed - quite a time to start working on suspense. I enjoyed your input. Still, if it's hard for you and isn't what you want, may I reveal you (privately) these plans? I'm very excited with them and with the game.

[[User:EvilCat|EvilCat]] 15:58, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Neonwhite===

Actually, I'm not that attached to the outcome and happy for the dice and the challenges to fall where they will. I thought it was allowed to introduce new components into a complication by spending a coin to do so and one can then draw on the traits as appropriate. I didn't think it that far fetched for additional sailors to be wandering the island. The threat falls on Santiago's side because the interruption may prevent the throwing of the dagger, of course in the ultimate outcome as narrated, the sailors presence is likely to hinder Santiago as much as Nicole (and perhaps they team up to overcome it)...

The disconnect here is possibly that G has a firm view of Nicole's personality, however to the extent it is not paid for specifically in coins, that personality it is at risk of being pushed around (by the likes of me). I for example was surprised that she reacted with such ferocity to Santiago's irritating manner - but so be it. That is kind of what Universalis is about. The process is a lot more stilted due to the online play, so we probably just have to cut each other more slack and be less attached to outcomes or game elements in general.

I'm still up for carrying on. Not particularly concerned about details. I would still like to explore the rules through this game and i expect we will all get better at it as we go along. Hence less far fetched challenges, story elements, rules interpretations) - or at least, equally far-fetched.

Why don't we try to resolve the complication as best we can and carry on?

[[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 17:25, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

=== NeonWhite ===
Oh and for the record I think the disease complication is a very nice spin on things. Quite a lovecraftian turn of events. Next step might be to specify effects of the disease...

Sorry I can't agree with you G. I do think there is a lot more fun gaming to be had here, however, and I'm sure we can get along in a hard-on-facts, soft-on-people fashion.

[[User:Neonwhite|Neonwhite]] 17:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Universalis 1

2009-04-17T20:23:29Z

Neonwhite: /* NeonWhite */

Universalis 1

2009-04-17T20:22:22Z

Neonwhite: /* NeonWhite */

Universalis 1

2009-04-17T19:16:47Z

Neonwhite: